I just wanted other people’s takes on the matter. Nowadays DRMs are a major handicap for legit gamers which I’ll admit for a long time I wasn’t. But now that I’m a semi less irresponsible adult with disposable infome I have made a system of justifiable piracy
Quality control.
Ever bought a game that got a huge amount of hype but turned out to be mediocre at best and a pile of trash at worse? Yes Dante’s inferno I’m stareing right at you.
So this is my system, when a new game comes out I imidietly pirate it, that way I see if:
the game is well ported form a console ( GT4 this is out to you, bitch)
Was the game a compleat rape of current lore if it is a long beloved series ( And this one to You Ultima 9)
Is the Game buggy to the point of being unplayable ( Ultima 8… and a fan-mention to Bethesda)
Do I like the Game’s story and Gameplay? ( The New Banjo Kazooie)
Is the end a Cliffhanger or just flat out Horrible ( ME3)
Based on these criteria I then proceed to buy or not buy the games. the Games that are good and I liked I Buy ( even games that lack in some categories if they excelled in one and I managed to pass it without forcing myself, it’s a buy)
Also this helps me to avoid the silly DRM excuse most pirates use, if I buy a copy of a game and it’s not a game that has a MP or I want to play it via MP I just play the pirated version, and have a mint condition wrapped game sitting on my shelf as a point of honor and just flat out eye candy/nerd porn.
This is how I voice myself on what games I want and I don’t want, This is how Mass Effect 1 and 2 Found there place on my shelf, but Mass Effect 3 didn’t. This is why Fallout New Vegas sits right next to Fallout 2 and 1, but Falloout 3, tactics and Brotherhood fo Steel doesn’t, this is why Dragon Age: Origins and the Expansion pack are in my computer drawer, while Dragon Age 2 is nowhere to be found. This is all a tribute to my Entire collection of the Ultima Series, where 8 and 9 sit next to all the goods ones as a bitter reminder what dose buying blindly cause, It’s my method of stateing what I want to thrive and what I want to Die.
This prevents me from funding Bad games. And before you go " watch a review" I’ll just say “IGN” and stare at you until you admit how silly that idea is.
I think your review argument is BS, because it seems you assume the only way of knowing if a game is good after its release is pirating it, which is just not true, gameplay videos and reviews from trustworthy sources (Such as youtube channels like Angry Joe) can more than confirm if a game is worth your time without you having to use silly excuses to pirate the game.
@ Joe_Pesci, I agree with you.
But keep in mind - some people are agitated. You cannot prove anything to them because they are not looking to learn. They want to remain in their position forever (like piracy = stealing and that’s it). Let them be. Just keep buying the games you legitimately enjoy and be a happy pirate.
I’ll admit Angry Joe is a credible source, but often times his reviews contain spoils of which he warns me, so It’s a gamble between Letting Joe spoil a good game for me or warn me of a bad one. great games can still prove to me horryfic as far as even at the very end - Mass Effect 3s Ending effectivly spoiled the whole game for me, mayeb it’s nto a deal breaker for other but hey it was for me, hence why I didin’t buy it, and yet somehow ME 1 and 2 sit neatly on my game shelves.
Besides some reviewers may find thigns for me that are damning - as Selliong points. Jim Sterling from Escapist and Angry Joe both praised releases like BF3 or MW3, while I absolotely LOATHED those games.
if no one buys games which are okay and fun but not necessarily great those developers never get the chance to get better. to say that buying a game is only necessary if the game is so great that you’re a fan would only support elite developers and in the long term simply eradicate most game devs leaving a few of the big ones left. no variety - no risks allowed.
This is stupid. It’s like stealing Pepsi from a store and telling the store-owner you’re stealing it because Coke tastes better. I’d rather suggest you to avoid games of a brand that has let you down multiple times.
Oh I don’t have a very high bench on whats a buying game, And I cut indie developers a lot of slack and just buy them at face valueso that they can make more games, sure I got burned a few times in the pretentious ones, but hey they do it for the love of the medium.
I use this system mostly on big name studious or anything that’s publishing under EA’s banner.
@zerger123 A bit missed analogy, it’s more like going up to the Pepsi game developer and saying you had a Sip of Regular Pepsi from your mate and it tastes horrible so you wouldn’t buy it, but on the other hand you did like Pepsi Twist and now your a regular buyer - so maybe they should make more drinks like Pepsi Twist.
Seams a lot fairer than buying a can just to find out that it tastes like sweat rinsed out of Gym socks and can do nothing about it besides swearing under your nose.
To quote Extra credits " If we keep buying 70$ monocles, the industry will keep trying to sell them to us."
I’d suggest though that exactly this attitude is the reason why big companies cannot take any creative risks. They can only create games that they already know will be purchased.
That’s exactly not the thing I’m doing, I test most games that suit my genera preferences, and If there good-show potential or at least show that the Developer tried, It’s a buyer and keeper for me. In the past I bought games by unknown developers at face value.
But then War Z happened.
Since then I test out all games, and if there small and ambitious and don’t have hints of cash ins - It’s a keeper.
The most rigorous requirements I put on fancy pants bigwig titles, I used such titles at the start of the topic so that everyone can relate/knows what I’m talking about. it most defiantly not mean I only buy Big name titles that are safe and stagnant. I’m a very avid Indie game player, I have most of the indie titles released in the last 3 years.
I’d like to suggest that big game companies don’t take risks, because rehashing the same game over and over makes the big bucks, regardless of piracy.
Secondly, I agree with OP to a certain degree, although his point has been badly put forward.
I have pirated many a game to see if i liked it, as many reviewers are biased, and aren’t inside my head knowing exactly what type of game i like to play. They may say “yeah, it’s a great game”, but what they actually mean is “Yeah, it’s a great game in my opinion”.
Case A: Fallout 3; many reviewers and all of my friends recommended i get this game, so without hesitation i went out and bought it on release day. I hated it. It is not the type of game that I enjoy. I’m not saying it’s a bad game, but it’s not to my tastes. £40 wasted. This is one example of many.
Case B: Spec Ops The Line: Pirated, love it, bought it.
Case C: SimCity; I have heard, read and seen the whole fiasco with this game, from reviewers and friends. However, i am still extremely interested in this game, but i will not buy this game. Why? Because at the moment it is unpiratable, and i am not spending money on a game with such a bad reputation without trying it first. Hell, in this scenario, maybe even a demo would suffice!
However, in the case of the original poster, and Mass Effect 3 - You liked the game up until the end? Then you still had hours of fun playing it, and should have bought it before you even managed to finish the game. I do feel your pain with the ending, but that’s no excuse.
Seen antichamber on steam. Pirated. Played for 30 minutes, immediatelly bought & reinstalled. Immidiatelly told my friends, they pirated & bought secs later. Didn’t play since coz I know I need to set aside some time for that (it’s that good)
Friend told me about Tomb Raider. Pirated. Wasn’t impressed. Played two weeks later, got stuck, finished, waited for 2 weeks for money in the account, bought.
Unreal Tournament 3 - pirated, played, uninstalled. Two weeks later, pirated, played, uninstalled (3hrs of total playtime). Damn, UT2k4 was way better.
Far Cry 3 - pirated, played, wasn’t impressed. A month later, finished the game over one weekend, bought. Now, I would not ever recommend to anyone playing far cry 3. It’s nicely-looking bullshit-story (especially compared to damn awesome tomb raider - which also looks better.) I still paid for that, because I finished the game, and it did serve it’s purpose.
Success stories (pirated, bought): Tomb Raider, Portals, Antichamber, UT, UT2k4, Starcraft (the only game I bought before pirating, because of SC1), Baldurs Gate, etc… Oh, and this game, which is in that “waiting for money in the account” queue.
But then - my PC was touched by many other failures, those, where it just didn’t click with me. Don’t remember them all, but I uninstalled Godmode & Dishonored just few secs ago. They just don’t work with me.
I think, that studios would love to practice the way of how iPhone / Android games are sold. I mean - Appstore says that “All purchases are non-refundable” but hey - if you hate something and write them, even they return the stupid dollar.
The main difference is, that those mobile games cost peanuts, like one dollar. If you’re buying some application for eight (or even 30 in my case for RDP protocol), you do think first whether it’s REALLY that good. I mean - researching all other options, trying lite versions, thinking whether the expense is justifyable. So no - I will always pirate everything above certain treshold, unless it’s completely impossible. And if it’s impossible, I will be always searching for someone who owns the game/software to try it first. To get their opinions.
DEMO does not make the job. Time limited version would, not feature-limited. That however applies to certain game types only. I have no interest in “trying” the feature-limited Battlefield, but I would definitely love a time-limited demo! On the other hand - demo of Greenhearth is perfectly ok (you can play unlimited version up to certain year).
I used to do this, and still feel this is a valid excuse (to a point). But, If you are ~half way into a game, then you really should pay for it even if you did not like it.
What I do nowadays is just wait for it to go on sale, STEAM is amazing for this reason. I have only been burnt by two games in the last year or so they have been Max Payne 3 and FEAR 3. I know most people liked these, but I found them to be either poorly ported to PC or just did not feel right. If you wait for a couple of months, you can get most games for ~50-75% off (Tomb Raider is ~50% off right now).
If I were to make an exception at this point, it would be for the COD games. I liked the single player, it’s a fun point/shoot sit back and go along for the ride. It’s a good experience, but I can’t stand the MP side, and have made a personal promise to not by any one of their MP games since BO came out. Here is the big problem, they don’t sell the SP by itself, and they almost never put their games on sale. Their games are still priced at 70-100% of their original price 2-3 years later. If MW3 were to drop to $15-$20 I would totally pick it up today for the SP, but nope.
No they can’t. They can give an indication, but they don’t show whether a game is fun. Only playing can do that.
I’ll use the Demo if there is one. You should too, its what its for. If there isn’t a demo, then its no-sale. Their loss. I refuse to buy a game without a demo (unless its in a bundle).
If the demo is only of a sub-set of features and isn’t fun because of it? Their loss, I won’t be buying it. Game Dev’s is time limited (5 years).
If you’re going to pirate for quality control (I understand why), you need to limit yourself to only play for a few hours, then decide if its worth buying. If you get to the end and are disappointed and don’t buy, you’ve gone too far. You obviously enjoyed the journey as others have said.
[quote=“patrick”]
if no one buys games which are okay and fun but not necessarily great those developers never get the chance to get better.[/quote]
This seems like a bad case of entitlement and is probably a logical fallacy. Why are developers owed the chance to make better games? They’ve already had their chance to make a good game first time. Why should I believe they’re going to do better next time? Was SimCity5 better than SimCity4?
What about the gamers? Why do the developer supersede the gamers who will lose out buying a crap game? Should we all have purchased SimCity5 in the hope that they’ll spend the money to make SimCity6 better? (I’ve never played SC5 nor am I likely to based on what I hear.)
There are hundreds of talented companies out there creating games, even first-time (you did it yourself Patrick). If there’s one creating mediocre games maybe they should be in a different industry or not relying on it for income.
piracy is used as justification of horrendous business practices such as obtrusive drm and also as justification of why a game doesn’t sell well, or any number of other things the publisher wants to make it say. It’s far better not to give them the numbers to work with, and just not buy the game/do more non-piratey research if you are unsure about a purchase.
Your opinion is quite hardcore. I remember a mediocre, buggy game riddled with bugs on a console of a company that was close to dying. The game got a remake after because the initial innovative idea was so well-received. It was an international hit and the sequel made a big mark on gaming industry with twice as much content as its prequel, because a much more talented programmer helped out. This game was one of the reasons the console company could move on and even today said game is one of the top-selling franchises in the world, and highly acclaimed among all age-groups.
That may friend was the story of Pokemon.
I could also count many other games that had lousy/mediocre prequels who shaped gaming nonetheless.
Ok, let’s start with the easy answer:
Gamers have ZERO entitlement to games. Games are a luxury, not a right. On the other hand, Programmers and artists, do have a right to a decent wage, just like anyone else. They also have a right to practice their chosen profession which, incidentally, is the only way they are going to get better.
Having read your post from top to bottom twice, I can say that your English is pretty good. Better than most forum trolls at least. Assuming English is your native tongue, did you spring out of your mother speaking full, perfectly formed, sentences, or did you learn slowly, going through stages where you could only speak gibberish, because you hadn’t yet had enough practice in forming words? Perhaps as a child your parents decided your speech was ok, but not good enough to warrant listening to; or did they perhaps consider that you were still learning, and thus accommodated your mistakes? Even if your native language is something other than English, the analogy still applies; either with your native tongue, or with learning English at school (or wherever).
Back to games, you have mentioned that if a game dev can’t produce a brilliant game first try, then they should quit and do something else… I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but 90% of game devs were doing something else, then decided to switch careers into game development. If it takes then one or two projects for them to realise that game development is radically different from many other computing careers, then so be it. Hopefully they have an understanding boss (or understanding fans) who will allow them the opportunity to try again. If they continue to fail, then sure fire them, or shut down their company, because they suck… but most? Most will learn and, when given a chance, will eventually come out with something awesome.
Now, you have to remember that games can fail for other reasons than ‘the developers suck’. A crap design (perhaps one that the legal team, or management have gotten their claws into) will remain a crap design no matter how good the artists or the programmers are. And SimCity 5 fails squarely into this category. The core idea was great, the implementation was pretty reasonable, but the design sucked (A City sim that doesn’t simulate people? WTF?), and the feature requirements from non-involved parts of EA (such as Legal) crippled what was left (the DRM worked beautifully… it’s a shame that it meant the game didn’t).
And we come to piracy. Myself, I admit to occasionally pirating a TV series, usually because the DMCA and local media monopolies (Sky TV) mean that I probably won’t see the series for at least a year or more, if ever, were I to wait for regular broadcasts. Also, if I discover a series legitimately at series 2, I might grab series 1 to catch up. I also might pirate the occasional film, usually because I missed in on the telly, and I figure that the studio has no way of knowing whether I watched it live or not. If I like the film, then I get the DVD/Blu-ray, because… hey, Extra Features!
But I never pirate games. If a game is that good, that I want it NOW NOW NOW, then I’ll buy it, or pre-order it. If I’m not sure about it, then oh look… preowned is cheaper, yet still legit (as much as EA likes to think otherwise). Failing that, I can wait for a sale, or better yet, a bundle (or best, both). Not counting publisher bundles like the Valve or id complete packs on Steam, my personal best is 10 games for £10 in a highstreet store, all brand new (ie no preowned). White labels ROCK! The only exception to my no pirated games rule was a game that is no longer on the market, and due to being an Activision title is not likely to be considered abandonware anytime soon. That some GBC/GBA roms when I was younger. I never had a GameBoy as a kid, but I did have my own PC, so VisualBoyAdvance + ROMS were my only options for a Pokemon fix. These days I can use eBay for that.
Funnily enough, I have NEVER bought a dud game (except as part of a bundle - never was a fan of Doom, but bought the id Superpack on Steam to get Wolfenstein and Commander Keen). Some games I’ve liked more than others, but all the ones I’ve played (and many I’ve yet to play), I’ve liked. Not once did I have to pirate a game to make my mind up. On the other hand, I have received free AAA games direct from the publishers before… my count is currently at 9, I believe.
I’m curious as to what you do for a living. That way I can come up with a BS way of twisting it so you sound like you are doing your job horribly and should be giving it away for free because your services won’t ever please 100% of the population.
Allow me to introduce you to the broken windows fallacy. - Glaziers are entitled to a decent salary too, why don’t we employ people to walk around breaking windows? The answer of course is because it’s absurd. I agree, programmers and artists have a right to a decent salary, but that’s not an entitlement. If they’re not good at their chosen profession they need to get a new one. If the teacher who taught me English (to use your analogy) was a crap teacher, they’d be fired and have to get work in another profession. Same applies to bad developers, musicians, artists, everyone.
I can’t think of a way to phrase this without sounding personal, its not, but you are aware of the hypocrisy of saying you’d never pirate a game to get it “NOW NOW NOW”, but you have no problem doing it with TV Shows for the exact same reasons you’re disparaging people pirating games?
There is no debate on the issue of theft. The term ‘piracy’ is used by people who don’t want to be more accurately called criminal thieves.
I’m not aware of any constitutional or legal entitlement in any state jurisdiction which entitles gamer’s to pleasurable enjoyment of any product. There are entitlements that ensure the product is fit for purpose and reasonably resembles the advertised description. If a purchased game falls short of these contractual requirements there is legal redress available to recover actual consequential financial loss.
If a purchaser simply doesn’t like a product which otherwise meets it’s contractual obligations that is simply no issue for the vendor/developer to immediately address with a refund. A wise vendor/developer would however take such end-user sentiments into consideration for the purposes of good will and market research/ future product development.
Game developers do not have a legal right to recover their costs and make profit. If their product has a market and it is priced and marketed appropriately it might succeed. Market forces are not a science no matter what some might assert and as with many things in life luck will play a very significant role in the success or failure of any endeavour.
What everyone in a civilised society is entitled to however is protection from the criminal theft of their property.
If a company repeatedly leaves its’ customers feeling cheated or significantly let down in some way then that company will eventually fail. If a consumer is unsure if they will like a product sufficiently to justify it’s purchase cost then they should exercise adult self-restraint and refrain from making the purchase. They certainly have no justification whatsoever to steal anything from anyone.
Fully functional but time limited demos are a fair and reasonable method to market an expensive product in a try-before-you-buy context. Any company which fails to provide this must be considered suspect. No argument can be made however to provide demo’s for low cost products.