@Simon, I apologize for misinterpreting your intentions. Others have recognised that your intent was to start a civil debate, and the topic has progress as such. That said, whilst I was perhaps wrong in directing my post at you, I do stand by my counter arguments for each of your common reasons.
Fact is when you use an old business model and fall behind, you tend to lose the race thatās why we develop new business models in the first place.
Piracy is the consequence of maximizing ones utility when you donāt have to spend any/ or little resources to do so, we all want more constantly, and to a point we donāt actually want to pay for it.
Is it wrong? Certainly, hard work needs to be rewarded, and the fact that the companies are adapting to this new scenario is a very good thing, because it means they will try to make more varied products again, a consequence of the new potential gain.
And asking gamers as a whole to consider anything, wouldnāt do any good, people will always take what they can if itās free, we are greedy in nature so we need a solution that people considers āfairā.
Does this make sense to you? :109:
/Simon
Precisely my point 
, glad you agree.
/Simon
Do you go to the store and steal stuff you want but donāt like something about it or itās creators?
Of course they adapting. And the new business models are F2P and P2P. They are not even bothering to make more varied products. If this is the future of adaptation then I will personally vote for Sopa and Pipa next time they or their reincarnation comes.
Speak for your self in regards to the last part. Since obviously not every gamer agrees with you.
Piracy has many reasons to exist. But your views is just so wrong itās disgusting. Not everyone are like you. And other people have different reasons to pirate.
Iāve studied law in a danish university, and one of the most pressing problems is how we define copy-right, and immaterial rights, who has the right to an idea for instance? What if i blurted out a good idea and somebody made it there own? Do I have rights to their work then? Iāve been in multiple case competitions where this has been the case and yet I donāt see it as negative that they consider ideas so good that they make it their own but it is still my idea is it not? This is a vague area, but let me ask you this instead.
How can I steal something if you lose nothing? It canāt be done, the definition of stealing is taking the property of another, and since nobody loses anything, how can it have been stolen?
This isnāt entirely true though, because of course theyāve invested time and money into this, so they lose a potential income, but this is only a potential so what they actually lose is the āamount of people, who are willing and able to buy the game but donāt do it because they can get it for freeā
Problems with assessing how much they lose comes forth when the movie industry say they lost 68 billion dollars, while they still had an increase in income of nearly 20%, how is that possible?
It comes from the idea of infinite money, if we all had infinite money we would likely do the same as if everything was free, if you get my point?
My point is not if things should or should not be, I donāt care about that what I do care about is how can we improve the situation so that the gaming industry can thrive, and we can get some varied games out again.
/Simon
Jesus how can you read my post and miss all the points I try to make? I must be a terrible writer.
As for stealing, see my other post in this regard.
And here for my own ideas, which apparently Iām the only one willing to give wink wink.
First off, stop with the physical copies and shipping, as a person who has taken part in producing and shipping Iāll strongly recommend the industry to stop this entirely, there is a reason the low earning companies are doing it differently, it costs less.
Second, commercials there are a lot of brands targeted at the people sitting out at the screens and this is a potential life line for many of these brands they get to hit their precise segment with surgery precision.
- how too do it? 2-5 min commercials at the start of each game maybe and a lot of in game commercials that will be static (to pay for production cost)
Third, lowering prices (this is primarily for major corporations) lowering prices which would potentially lead to more sales (this is a personal theory)
Fourth, mimic Netflix concept pay a monthly fee and get access to a lot of older games and some of the newer games and then get paid royalties for the amount of games played this could potentially help the indie gaming community as well.
How do you like the ideas?
/Simon
Firstly there is a difference between piracy and copying an idea. One is stealing the product while other is stealing an ideas about the product without changing it.
Now for your offers.
- This will cause a major uproar. Humanity isnāt ready for fully digital retail. And used market is which uses physical copies is still a big part of our life. Itās easier to stop pirates then used market. And unlike with pirates companies can actually profit off the used market.
2.You mean F2P? What of those who hate it? I rather pay more then have to sit through bloody commercials. And Iām sure that many would agree with that. Devās certainly do.
3.Lowering prices will decrease piracy but not stop it. And every country has itās own prices. Americas prices are probably the lowest in the world and yet they pirate game still.
4.Some already do have something similar. The thing is that with games people like to own their copies be those digital or physical. Not to mention that prices for this thing would be astronomical since unlike movies, games come only in one format and canāt be resold by developers to cinemas and tv chanels for extra profit.
You really should take more note of the industry and how it works in real world.
People always compare piracy to stealing in a shop, but that is not a fitting comparison.
Why donāt people steal in a shop?
- Itās risky: there is a very high chance to get caught.
- If you get caught, there is quite a bit of immediate trouble associated to it
- You are takeing something off someone else, directly harming them
All of these reasons donāt apply like that for piracy.
- You hardly ever get caught
- Since a huge ammount of pirates never get caught, the second bullet point doesnāt apply either
- You are copying. The original file stays where it is, and you probably wouldnāt buy the game eitherway, so you are not directly taking anything of anybody. (Talking only about direct effects)
A better comparison would be, you find $50 on the road. Do you bring it to the police (as you are supposed to) to return it to the perso who lost it, or do you keep it? I believe most people would take it (I personally wouldnāt but thats a different story).
Did you not read my post about immaterial rights? The problem is there is no difference between piracy and stealing an idea.
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I doubt youāre in a position to decide what humanity is ready for, you believe it isnāt, I believe it can be a way to help the market, and the used market is actually hurting the business A LOTā¦ did you even research this?
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No Iām talking about games generated purely through commercials, which means itās free to play, but not pay to win, there is a huge huge difference :), you could stack the same capitals from commercials purely if used correctly.
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You canāt ever stop piracy, thinking you can is purely fiction, diminishing it so that the companies can gain a rightly share is the goal, not stopping piracy.
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Which companies do this? Iāve yet to see one, the price wouldnāt be astronomical remember series are being sold this way as well.
Lastly your comment on me taking note of it, Iām afraid this sword swings both ways you clearly have no concept of cost of doing business and how companies operate, Iāve done my fair amount of research prior to this post.
You donāt understand the need for change, and find it easier to swat ideas down than to accept new things, and generate ideas and thatās fine, but it doesnāt generate any forward moving actions which means Iāve no need for further replies from you, thank you.
/Simon
I agree, people are generally ignorant, just check the last post from sion_svagard :).
There is a difference.
- Digtal destribution can help the market by making games more accesible to other gamers yes, but pirating is only decreased.
I agree, I canāt speak for humanity. But I did notice that no one is happy when companies try to get rid of used games.
While there is certain ammount of hurting, itās definetly not A LOT. First thing first. DLC are not affected by used market while in digital pirating it easy to aquire.
Second as much as we all hate EA you have to agree that online pass for games that have good single player and bonus of multiplayer was a brilliant idea. While itās not the best solution it certainly seems to be working quite good.
2.And I speak about the same games. Not everybody love F2p model even when itās purely comercial.
3.Never sayed anything abut stoping piracy. - Cant say about pc games but console market has places that offer to rent and buy at decreased price games.
Iāve done enough to understand the picture.
Your ideas are revolutionary yes but they wonāt be accepted easy if at all. Your ideas derive from the reason piracy thrives. Getting games for free. A concept that while nice can also have plenty of down sides. Microtransactions are not what I wold call the way of the feature along with comersalizing the hell out of games.
And Dakkaron example is definetly not better.
Geting caught depends on security in the shop. And how well you know the shop layout.
The pirates do ocasionaly get caught and there is quite a bit of trouble for them, there is just simply to many of them for it to have to much impact.
āāYou are copying. The original file stays where it is, and you probably wouldnāt buy the game eitherway, so you are not directly taking anything of anybody. (Talking only about direct effects)āā
Copying something that was copyrighted is actually considered stealing.
You would not buy the game but you would play the game. I canāt be the only one that seeās the problem here. You buy the games to play them not to worship them. So thatās no excuse.
And 50$ comparison is a joke. There is no way to find out who it belongs too. And you only find it by acident, not becaus youāve been folowing the guy who had 50 bucks stuck losely in his pocket and the bumped into him for the money to drop.
all im going to say is you call it stealing. i call it the extended demo lol you say im a thief i would not like to be called that. im just not a moron who has more money then brains. buys every game out there at 60 dollar value just to see if i like it with a no return policy. that said if there were more demos i would not pirate shit. piraitng stuff is the best way for most people to see if they like a game. most pirated games only work for single player. so pirating a game like cod or battle field 3. allows you to demo the sp see if the game is good and if u would enjoy the multiplayer. so my self i pirated battle field 3 played single player loved it bought the game played multiplayer bought the expasions. yes techicaly i did steal it but for my self and yes i know this is a shit excuse but it was only to see if i liked it. cause they did not provide a demo. and im sure most of you guys can remember going into a game store in the early 90ās for pc gaming and seeing a demo disk for free that said take one. you took one you played it if u like it u bought it. you dont see that any more. but i do like the pratice of buying into a game while its being made for less then half its price. that right there is some thing i love to do.
all im going to say here is. there is a way to rent pc games its been proven it still happens just no body does it.
2 people do it.
1 gametap
2 onlive
if more people said hey im going to make xxxxx available on gametap or onlive.
and people can pay 2 dollars to rent it for one day. you might see a decline in piracy
which brings me to this @PatrickKlug @DanielKlug make your game avalible on gametap and onlive. that might just help with your money issues.
@sion_svagard:
Okay, then lets take some other examples:
- Stealing off the country by not paying your full taxes
- Stealing off the public transport companies by getting on the metro without a valid ticket
- Stealing off a record company by borrowing a cd of a friend (even though it says on the cd you shouldnāt)
- Stealing off the government by buying cigarets smugled from a different country (I donāt smoke but I read about stuff like that all the time in the newspapers, at least here in Europe)
- Again stealing off the government by declaring stuff you send in the post to be less valuable than it is to avoid toll.
- Stealing off mobile hardware vendors by flashing a diffenent version of Android that allows tethering e.g.
- Stealing off your internet provider by using a router to allow more than one computer to be connected to the internet (not so much now anymore, but happened a lot a few years ago)
These are much closer to the topic and all of them are comitted quite frequently, especially if there is no or hardly any checks on it. Do you need any more of them?
Iām not saying piracy is good (I donāt pirate myself), I just wanted to say, it is nothing special. People always try to cut corners when it comes to spending money.
all im going to is burn and he is right. every thing now a days is stealing or ripping people off in some aspect.
not maybe every bodyās type of music but the song has a message
Not everything. Pirates will use any excuse to justify their piracy. We have youtube, there are enough lets play and other videos that show you the gameplay. Pirating on the first day hardly can be justified by wanting to try it before buying it. But I do have a question, do you pirate and play full game before making decision or do you play for a few hours,like it and then buy it to finish it.
honestly it depends it took me a long time to get the money for skyrim. so i played it all the way thro that is me personally. but i did buy it and all expansions for it. my mom also ended up buying the game way befor i did just for my brothers on there 360. and before that i bought oblivion twice mainly cause some body stole it from me. i mean honestly it really depends. and i dont think people get the deffrince between excusses and facts. like here is a fact i pirated skyrim cause i was to broke to buy it. fact i got money and bought it latter. excusses are some thing else imho. but im not going to get into is it wrong is it right is it this or that. but i stated what i did and why i did it. so there you go
Weird. There is nothing like that writen on my Lordi CD. You do realize that the rest of your stuff is actually in the same criminal area as piracy? Especially buying cigarets. Okay. So youāre illegally acquiring product which copyrights have been broken in more ways then one rather then directly stealing it from developers. Does that make you feel better now? Or maybe you want a hug and a pirated copy of DGT along the way?
i dont think its copy right laws people are worried about its tax money. here is ga i can buy a pack for 3 dollars in new york that pack is 8. its greed nothing more then that i cant speak for Europe tho