Building my first gaming PC

Well, suffice to say, up until now I’ve been playing on a laptop that’s about 4 years old, and hasn’t been too bad until the recent days. There are some games that I’ve recently bought that I’d just like to have better graphics, smoother FPS, and there’s some games that I bought a while ago that I’d want the same thing on.

Needless to say, I (currently) play games like XCOM: Enemy Within, Crusader Kings II, Europa Universalis IV, Hearts of Iron III (soon to be #4), Saints Row 3, GTA IV, Warhammer 40k Dawn of War II, Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas, Total War games, Don’t Starve:Together, and Garry’s Mod. I might play more games from time to time, like Starbound (which gets serious lag in some areas.) I’m not looking for a $2,000 gaming build that can run new games smoothly for the next 4 years, I’m just looking for a $600-750 PC that can run games on high-medium settings. (Currently I run most games with about 30fps on high-medium settings, except for Skyrim which is 30fps on low. :frowning: )

I’m not very good at making builds and even though I tried to make one I couldn’t quite find one that was within my budget range, because I’m not very good at picking parts. So, I’m wondering if any of you guys could create a build for me. Thanks.

Budget: $600-750

TL;DR - I need a gaming build, I’m too bad at making them and I couldn’t make one in budget, I can only run Skyrim on low with 30fps.

I never tried building a gaming PC before, i should try it.

$412 USD because I wasnt sure if you want to include Monitor in that. Also to show you that a $400 computer is “good enough” for all those games at reasonably good looking settings. You could beef up any of those components for more power.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=33099807

What’s more, when you do your next upgrade (probably in 2-3 years, 4 if you’re patient) you can reuse that case, hard drive, optical drive, and maybe even PSU if you don’t get a crazy powerful GPU. You can just upgrade the “same” PC for years and years.

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Thanks.

how
the optimization

Hey man, just to let you know, a $600-$750 build can actually handle games at 60 fps, on those high or even ultra settings in AAA games. I set up a build for you that’ll do just that, including the operating system, which actually isn’t necessary because if you sign up for the Win10 insider preview, you get Win10 free. Anyway, I’ll give you the partlist, as well the permalink from PCPartpicker.com. If you have any further questions, feel free to PM me or make another post in this thread!

CPU: i5-4440
Motherboard: H81M-E33
RAM: Pareema 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600MHz
SSD: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 120GB
HDD: Western Digital Red 2TB
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 960 2GB
Case: Rosewill FBM-02
PSU: Corsair Builder 430W 80+ Bronze
OS: Windows 8.1 (OEM)

Here’s the link for the partslist, which also has all the pricing and vendor information. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MbhNHx

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That motherboard only has 2 DIMM slots, so putting 2x4GB in it seems wasteful, especially if he ever wants more than 8GB of memory. I would definitely go with 1x or 2x 8GB, that way he’s not just throwing away ram if he decides to upgrade.

2x8GB would fall outside of the current budget, and screw up the balancing of the system. As it is, no part has too much money dedicated to it for unnecessary functions, whereas having 16GB of RAM on a system like this would be a waste. Going with a single 8GB slot also doesn’t make sense for two reasons, as we’d have to sacrifice dual-channel performance, but also there’s no guarantee that in the future, he’ll be able to get a matching stick of RAM, and mismatching modules isn’t recommended in any circumstance.

Not to mention how he likely won’t be upgrading his RAM anytime soon, not until the next console cycle at least, which gives him several years currently, and by then he’d be better off upgrading his CPU and motherboard, which would most likely be a switch to DDR4 at that point, making it irrelevant in the first place.

Also, upgrading the motherboard to support more slots would again compromise the budget, and is unnecessary for what he’s doing. As it stands, 8GB is enough for now and several years in the future, and when he upgrades, he likely won’t be able to, or wouldn’t even be recommended to buy another stick of DDR3 RAM.

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I’m only addressing you comments about dual vs single channel because using 1x8GB is what I was suggesting.

Transferring 3MB (Intel i5-4440 cache size) from RAM to CPU at 12GB/s (DDR3-1600 speed) takes 3MB/(12GB/s)=0.24ms.
Transferring 3MB (Intel i5-4440 cache size) from HDD to RAM at 100MB/s (typically 1tb magnetic drive speed) takes 3MB/(100MB/s)=300ms.

Which case causes more pain? Having slow ram and waiting 0.12ms for a large operation? Or having not enough ram and waiting 300ms+seek time for the same operation? Arguing for dual channel memory is like saying you want the mail truck to go faster when you could just add a trailer to carry more mail instead. Memory speed is NOT the performance bottleneck in any modern consumer application.

Edit: justifying the need for more RAM: Games will continue to let you run them at lower settings, making them less process-intensive. They will also continue to require more ram, however. The best possible thing to futureproof this system and increase potential performance (by prevent paging to an archaic technology like a spinning platter) is to increase the size of the ram. 8GB is enough for right now, but won’t always be.

Edit2: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1349-ram-how-dual-channel-works-vs-single-channel/Page-3 is a decent demonstration of the “difference” between dual and single channel performance.

Glad to see you edited your post to be less aggressive and presumptious, those kinds of posts are the worst, seemed out of place on a forum as small as this.

Now, again, if we went with a motherboard with more slots, and got 8GB now, we’d have to mix and match later, which again isn’t recommended in any case. If we went with 16GB now, that’d be a lot of added cost that would break the budget even more than I already sort of did, but also imbalance the system as 16GB isn’t really necessary for what he’s doing, and doesn’t really match his build.

Also, it’ll be a while before 8GB is obsolete. Windows 10 doesn’t require a large amount, and as consoles are limited to 8GB period, we can count on all upcoming multiplats not using more than that, making an upgrade for the vast majority of titles completely useless.

16GB will be necessary in the future, however DDR4 is currently out, as well as consumer grade CPUs that support it, so it’s likely that by the time he needs 16GB, which would be the next console cycle, there will have been plenty of time for prices of the CPU and RAM to drop, so it makes sense to stay with 8GB now, then move to 16GB when he’ll actually be using it. As it stands, half of that memory would be completely unused.

Also, just to make a quick correction, the SSD will be used for the page file, not the hard drive, as that’s the standard Windows setup, and it’s not something that should be changed since write cycles are so plentiful that using them for the page file is perfectly fine. So the SSD is what we’d be transfering to. We’re still looking at under a second for that transfer, as the SSDNow V300 can hit 340MB/ps in reads, and even higher in writes, some sites saying up to 380MB/ps.

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Glad to see you edited your post to be less aggressive and presumptious, those kinds of posts are the worst, seemed out of place on a forum as small as this.

I realized I had made a very wrong assumption, rendering pretty much the whole argument invalid. The point as it stands now, I still stand by, though.

Now, again, if we went with a motherboard with more slots, and got 8GB now, we’d have to mix and match later, which again isn’t recommended in any case.

On the contrary. For a casual user I would recommend that in nearly any case.

If we went with 16GB now, that’d be a lot of added cost that would break the budget even more than I already sort of did, but also imbalance the system as 16GB isn’t really necessary for what he’s doing, and doesn’t really match his build.

I don’t think worrying so much about “balancing the system” is very important. This isn’t a general use product he’s trying to market, this is something he’s going to use for a few years, and I say the option to upgrade ram without replacing ram is more valuable than marginal performance gains. At least fiscally.

Also, it’ll be a while before 8GB is obsolete. Windows 10 doesn’t require a large amount, and as consoles are limited to 8GB period, we can count on all upcoming multiplats not using more than that, making an upgrade for the vast majority of titles completely useless.

He doesn’t play only multiplatform games though. Future PC games and future multiplats with modding capabilities might benefit from more than 8GB, especially if the user wants to do something like play a game while something else happens in the background, like leave firefox open to let a download run, or have a paused video.

16GB will be necessary in the future, however DDR4 is currently out, as well as consumer grade CPUs that support it, so it’s likely that by the time he needs 16GB, which would be the next console cycle, there will have been plenty of time for prices of the CPU and RAM to drop, so it makes sense to stay with 8GB now, then move to 16GB when he’ll actually be using it. As it stands, half of that memory would be completely unused.

I agree that going with 16GB out of the starting gate is unwise, but I also say that ruling out the possibility of upgrading to 16GB without a complete rebuild is also unwise.

Also, just to make a quick correction, the SSD will be used for the page file, not the hard drive, as that’s the standard Windows setup, and it’s not something that should be changed since write cycles are so plentiful that using them for the page file is perfectly fine. So the SSD is what we’d be transfering to. We’re still looking at under a second for that transfer, as the SSDNow V300 can hit 340MB/ps in reads, and even higher in writes, some sites saying up to 380MB/ps.

I did not see that you included an SSD. That was my mistake. You could probably expect performance of up to 500MB/s from a similarly priced SSD (my kingston and mushkin 120gbs both get that speed) Still, 500MB/s could be painful if you have paged several gigabytes.

I wanted to clarify my statement about mixing and matching ram. I haven’t ever in my life heard of a case of real, measurable problems arising from mixing and matching ram. Everyone knows “it is not recommended”. Not recommended by whom? By the people whose job it is to sell as much ram as they possibly can. Can there theoretically be a problem? Sure. Will there be a problem? I can’t answer definitively, I can only say “When have you ever heard of it actually BEING a problem?” I’ve never had a problem. Not even when using different speeds, timings, and capacities.

For a casual user, you absolutely shouldn’t be doing something that could cause compatability issues, and very easily as well. With how RAM timing operates, it’s a bet that leads to reduced performance usually, best case is one RAM module works slower, and worst case is they’re straight up not able to work together.

Balancing the system is also important in this case as again, having 16GB now or leaving the option to upgrade in the future would throw off the budget as well, so it’s much more likely to be a waste of money than not. Also, as for having tabs in the background, paused videos and whatever else in the background, I find that 8GB is plenty enough for even heavy multitasking. Even when skyping, downloading via Steam and Chome simulataneously, as well as having tabs in the background, the bottleneck is going to be CPU resources and internet speed as opposed to anything else. Spoken from experience here, 8GB on the rig I’m currently using and I’ve never had it buckle under any load so far.

I will concede that some things may benefit form having more, but my point is that it’s such a tiny use case scenario, that it makes more sense to not bother until it’s actually necessary.

Also, I’m glad we can agree on something, and if it were a year or two ago I would actually agree with you, as doing a complete rebuild is a pain. This case however, I personally believe that by the time he’ll find that he needs 16GB or even wants it, it’ll likely be time for a new CPU and motherboard anyway, and at that point, going 16GB makes sense. And no worries about the whole SSD thing, reading through blocks of forum text makes it easy to miss things, and while hitting the page file with several gigabytes would be pretty unpleasant, I can’t think of a situation where that would occur for a gaming build. If this were a video editing station, I’d agree 100% on getting 16GB, I guess that’s something for the OP to keep in mind as well, if he wants to try that in the future.

And the whole no mix-matching thing mainly comes from how doing so means overclocks can be unstable, as well as mess with the timings of the RAM itself, leading to lesser performance or incompatability. The big issue is how the BIOS handles the changing of the timing on the RAM, as some like to set the timings to the faster module CAS-wise, so that leads to instability and the overclock issue.

That said, overclocking isn’t an issue here since it isn’t a K-series, and the problem with a thing like this is that it’s a case-by-case basis. Some people, like you and many others, swear up and down that there are no issues with plenty of evidence, both anecdotal and with proof that nothing goes wrong, while others point out with equal proof what happens when they do it.

Guess this is something for LTT to cover or something, it’s just something that I never personally recommend because the possibility of running into an issue that the user has no idea how to fix, is something that I don’t like risking, even if the chance is pretty small in itself.

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I will cede that overclocking with mismatched ram is probably a bad idea, with the caveat that all my arguments to this point were under the assumption that a self-described “poor-picker-of-parts” would not be overclocking.

I respect your opinions and have no remaining solid means of arguing against them, though I hold different opinions myself. It appears we have both taken the same gambles and made opposite wagers and only a practical test would show who picked correctly. I very much enjoyed this discussion. :blush:

Always nice to have a forum conversation end nicely, have a good day man

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